Curse

TheOneMephisto · Apr 08, 2007, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunbear

Also, if you are the infuser, you probably wouldn't want to be near the front. But as a prot monk, you may want to be near your frontliners and midline casters. Therefore, for a prot monk, I feel that channeling could be very helpful.

You never want to be close to your frontline on monk... never. As someone said, as monk, you want to be as far away from the enemy as possible without letting stuff die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunbear

Other things to consider, what other skills can you use from a /Me or a /E secondary. With /E, its pretty much, GoLE. Most of the other skills are not worth it. With /Me, there are many other options available.

Valid, though I think that this discussion is more directed towards pure "1 slot left what emanagement to take" discussion, but mesmer secondaries do offer a lot more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunbear

Channeling comes into great effect in the Kill Count maps as there may often be as many as 8 opponents in a given area.

No. If you're getting +8s on channeling, that usually means that you're in the middle of a massive 3-way melee or that you just got sandwiched between two teams, both a very bad position for a monk.

zling · Apr 08, 2007, 09:09 PM // 21:09

GoLE and Channeling serve 2 different purposes and are good in 2 different situations, this sentence is especially true to monks...
GoLE is good for using 10+ energy spells, mainly from the prot line such as Aegis and Zealous Benediction or whatever else you like without compromising your positioning. while channeling is more fit toward a healer's boon or boon prots who spam 5 energy spells however they need to compromise their position to make channeling effective.
overall I like GoLE more for monks as prot monk>heal monk any time...

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Apr 08, 2007, 09:14 PM // 21:14

I honestly don't see what is wrong with a monk being at the front line in HA. If the rest of your team knows what they're doing, you are just as well protected there as you are in the back. If the other team wants to get you, they are going to come and get you. If you are up front, and the monks know what they're doing, you should be pre protted, and you can still have wards and stuff. Also, the massive energy gain from channeling and being able to spam skills like there is no tomorrow is plenty of protection...

Bread Fan · Apr 08, 2007, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Because being at the back and a frenzy happy warrior over extends to get you it is GG.

Don't see what the point of this discussion is. Everyone is stating the obvious: channeling is for mobs and gole is for 10e skills now. Uhhh thx...

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Apr 08, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Yea, but would you actually have trouble beating a team with that stupid a warrior and that little coordination anyway? No. Where as the teams that push up into your backline properly are much more of a threat, and it is advantageous to have channeling then.

Llint · Apr 08, 2007, 09:23 PM // 21:23

I usually find, when I run channeling and try exploiting it, I die. Why? Because I'm in the frontlines. Thats why I avoid channeling like the plague.

Thomas.knbk · Apr 08, 2007, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

If the other team wants to get you, they are going to come and get you.

Yes, they will come for you, and yes, eventually they'll get you. But if you're way back it sure gives you more time and space for pre-kiting and more time for preprotting than when you're in the frontline. Since kiting is actually the best energy management in the entire game, I consider that important.

TheOneMephisto · Apr 08, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Yea, but would you actually have trouble beating a team with that stupid a warrior and that little coordination anyway? No. Where as the teams that push up into your backline properly are much more of a threat, and it is advantageous to have channeling then.

If you're in the front, you're just making things easy for them. They can quickly switch of pressuring your midline and do spikes on you since you're so close.

If you're in the back, you're going to be getting that 2-3 sec to prepare and prekite before they reach you (teleporting warriors excepted), and that can make a big difference.

Also, being in the front openly exposes you to any midline disruption they have (cough diversion). Being in the back generally means that if they want to mes with your monks, they're going to have to push up right on your warrior's faces, making your warriors job that much easier.

And if a team pushes up on you, you're going to want to be in the back... because if you're in the front they don't even need to push up on you, they just switch targets, take 2 steps, and start smashing you.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Apr 08, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Well obviously you don't have to spend all your time on the frontline... sigh, guess it's an impasse. I really don't see/have any problems with using channeling or being in the frontline, but all the mo/e's I see suck and can't do their job.

Legendary Shiz · Apr 08, 2007, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Apprentice

Channeling is better. Let's say you Glyph, than use 2 skills. Now all of a sudden everyone is burning and a sin is spiking a char and you're the infuser. You will burn that energy quick infusing and sending out heals since you have already glyphed. Channeling would net a constant energy return that Glyph can't. In the long run the longer the battle the better Channeling will help you out, even in the event you are killed.

None of this is has changed, it was just like that BEFORE the nerf and widely recognized as one of the best energy management skills.

ss1986v2 · Apr 08, 2007, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Well obviously you don't have to spend all your time on the frontline... sigh, guess it's an impasse. I really don't see/have any problems with using channeling or being in the frontline, but all the mo/e's I see suck and can't do their job.

well, if you can run a mo/a or a mo/w and do your job, i dont see how being a mo/e automatically makes you suck. quality of the monk has very little to do with their utility and everything to do with the person behind the keyboard.

placebo overdose · Apr 08, 2007, 11:59 PM // 23:59

in dont like how easy channeling is shattered without a cover ench :/

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Apr 09, 2007, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss1986v2

well, if you can run a mo/a or a mo/w and do your job, i dont see how being a mo/e automatically makes you suck. quality of the monk has very little to do with their utility and everything to do with the person behind the keyboard.

I was actually stating two things: 1.) the average mo/e IS a scrub from what I've seen, they think they can monk cause they think it's good e management and they don't have to pay attention while using channeling. 2.) they run out of energy under heavy pressure.

Lorekeeper · Apr 09, 2007, 12:10 AM // 00:10

you really cannot evaluate these 2 skills without taking into account the team build that you are running.

If you are running a build that includes a modest amount of defense and shutdown, it means your monks will have to deal with less damage. Therefore glyph of lesser would be adequate energy management because the monks will not have to be protting and healing huge amounts of dmg all the time.

However, if you run one of the fotm high damage builds, like the thumper/fire or assa/fire builds, you have very little defense. Your monks will be solely responsible for defense, which means they need to pump out large amounts of energy over a sustainable period of time, which means Channeling would be better suited.

But then again, running the high dmg build is built on the tenet ''best form of defense is a good attack'' which means you rely on your offense to take down the enemies offense so that you end up not needing to be healed as much.

I dont like this strategy, its not very flexible and very blunt. If you run into a team with good shutdown or good monks, the strategy of overwhelming them quickly will not work, meaning your monks will have to fight the battle of attrition.

Monks running Gole will not win the battle of attrition and this is why i prefer channeling over Gole.

As far as im concerned, you can never evaluate a single monk skill or skill bar without taking into account :

1) the team build
2) the other monks in the backline

I see all this talk about channeling being bad because it places you into bad positions.

This is because you are not good at using channeling, plain and simple. If you run into a pack of enemies to farm energy and you die because of it... that is your mistake and not the mistake of the skill channeling.

I have been monking for a very long time, and i am very confident with my use of channeling... using 1 or 2 5 energy skills inside a group of enemies is usually enough to raise energy levels back to sustainable levels. Camping groups of enemies for more than 4-5 seconds is very rarely a good idea. The ONLY situation where this is justifiable is when fighting King of the Hill in HOH and it is only advisable when you are fighting spikes. Against pressure teams it is unadvisable to put yourself in their faces for a long period of time.

That said, i have been known to last for quite long periods of time pretending like im part of enemy teams

but that brings me onto point 2.

Can you trust your other monks? If im going to have to put myself into harms way will my fellow monks be able to protect me while i do that? I will probably need a prot spirit or shield of absorption, at the very least i need to let my fellow monks know that im attempting such a stupid move!

I think its easier for prot monks to farm channeling inside groups of enemies, because you can prot yourself while you do so for free, and allow your other monks an easier job of healing you while protted. Nothing beats spamming spirit bond and soa and seeing +1 fly over your head.

Whats the morale of my post.

well, im trying to make it clear that the best use of channeling is through experience and only with experience will a monk be able to use it safely and to its full potential. Like another poster said, monking is hard enough already without having to worry about using channeling. But that just means you arent good enough yet.

Just because you cannot use channeling to its full potential without dying doesnt mean its bad nrg management for monks. It means you are not good enough.

Gole is nrg management for beginners. It only shines in GvG when channeling is out of the question and positioning is the name of the game. But in HA, the potential rewards of channeling FAR outweigh the risks of its uses.

anyway, why all this talk about gole and channeling have you SEEN what they did to auspicious incantation!

Auspicious incant followed by HP or Aegis... = energy heaven

its already spreading, its going to be fotm soon.

Lorekeeper

ss1986v2 · Apr 09, 2007, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

I was actually stating two things: 1.) the average mo/e IS a scrub from what I've seen, they think they can monk cause they think it's good e management and they don't have to pay attention while using channeling. 2.) they run out of energy under heavy pressure.

and id agree, but not for the same reason. the average mo/e is a scrub, because the average GW player is a scrub. their utility has little to do with this. your average mo/me is also a scrub, as is your average mo/a, mo/w, ect...

a good monk, regardless of secondary, will not be pressured to the point of breaking from average or even above average competition.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Apr 09, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss1986v2

and id agree, but not for the same reason. the average mo/e is a scrub, because the average GW player is a scrub. their utility has little to do with this. your average mo/me is also a scrub, as is your average mo/a, mo/w, ect...

a good monk, regardless of secondary, will not be pressured to the point of breaking from average or even above average competition.

Actually, I've seen a trend of mo/me players being a lot better than mo/e players. Maybe it's because they have a brain and can think outside the meta, which means they have a brain to use for other things like being a better monk too, or maybe channeling is just that much better. I dunno, but I've definitely noticed that the average mo/me is a LOT better than the average mo/e.

TheOneMephisto · Apr 09, 2007, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Actually, I've seen a trend of mo/me players being a lot better than mo/e players. Maybe it's because they have a brain and can think outside the meta, which means they have a brain to use for other things like being a better monk too, or maybe channeling is just that much better. I dunno, but I've definitely noticed that the average mo/me is a LOT better than the average mo/e.

Or maybe people playing Mo/Me are all old-school players who don't want to give up their fountain of energy, while everyone else moves on to Mo/E?

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Apr 09, 2007, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Or maybe people playing Mo/Me are all old-school players who don't want to give up their fountain of energy, while everyone else moves on to Mo/E?

Can't fight results.

ss1986v2 · Apr 09, 2007, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

Actually, I've seen a trend of mo/me players being a lot better than mo/e players. Maybe it's because they have a brain and can think outside the meta, which means they have a brain to use for other things like being a better monk too, or maybe channeling is just that much better. I dunno, but I've definitely noticed that the average mo/me is a LOT better than the average mo/e.

its not GoLE that causes this, its the scrubs and the current meta. example: joe bad monk watches observer, sees all the mo/e and decides "w00t! they must be 1337!!1!" he rolls a mo/e but is still a bad monk. whether he ran GoLE or channeling makes no different. if channeling monks were the meta, scrubs would steal that, and you would see a bunch of bad mo/me.

the heart of the issue: lots of bad monks run mo/e. but that has nothing to do with mo/e being bad, it just means that there are lots of bad monks running around. blame the lack of skill/creativity by your average GW player, not the skill.

Kiba of hidden leaf · Apr 09, 2007, 12:37 AM // 00:37

I totally agree with Loremaster, and im tired of people who have no concept of positioning calling monks who use GoLE noobs.

Yes channeling does give you more energy, but as said before kiting is the best form of energy management. So by using channeling and overextending and saying "hell yea this is alot of energy" you are countering all the energy you get. By using GoLE and staying back you are saving the energy you would be using with channeling but also you get the reduction for those 2 skills.

And people blow it off like those 2 skills are nothing as said by an earlier post.
Heres a hint, dont heal a target that is in no danger and is at 90 percent health.

In a perfect situation with no enchant removal and no caster pressure with only thumpers, say 4, are on you with channeling and SoD(as said before). To keep up SoD constantly while you gain only 4/10 of the energy back is not the smartest idea.

Being both a frontline and monk i know that kiting and positioning are key.

I CAN NOT understand how you can say that someone who uses GoLE could be noob because they dont need to watch their positioning. Ok so they dont overextend and their called noobs? Instead of watching their underextension they are watching their overextension(maybe the monk is noob and will overextend anyway

)

Overall i would say that the math shows channeling to be better but GoLE to be better for more experienced monking.